Curse

Sarevok Thordin · Oct 23, 2010, 09:31 PM // 21:31

I'm actually finding myself enjoying the Paragon this year.........am I weird?

Black Metal · Oct 23, 2010, 09:32 PM // 21:32

hm, figure now's just as good a time to give my opinion as any, after having read through a fair amount of this.

I understand where the hardcore PvPers are coming from. However, costume brawl is not hardcore PvP. It's about as casual as PvP gets -- as are all the events that feed into the Gamer title track.

I read some good thoughts here but I think the hardcore PvPers are overanalyzing this. It's casual, fun, fast, relatively thoughtless. I see some people fault CB for being simple mash ups........and I think, is that a bad thing?

As a primary PvE'er, I have fun with CB, and don't leverage the future of GW PvP on this. It is what it is and it's fast, fun, and simple.

FoxBat · Oct 23, 2010, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

Easy fix for current randomness:
Also make the post-victory waiting time random, between 4-9 seconds (between the 'moment of victory' and loading up new fight)..

This is not trival given how the game currently shuffles up EVERYONE in the arena at the same 30 sec interval. Including opponents for the victorious team's next match. (in case of consecutive teams a la RA)

I have to think this change is about more than just combating syncing anyway. It is taking from the elite and giving to everyone else. You wonder why GW PvP is vanishing while games like modern warfare and battlefield and TF2 continue on, it's because there's no place for scrubs and newbs to have some fun, and the elite are an inevitably shrinking group. If you can't let formats like holiday games and RA be the place for "degenerate" scrub play then where?

drkn · Oct 23, 2010, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Regarding consecs in the current CB format:

10+ is not uncommon, 6+ is normal.

hitsuji182 · Oct 23, 2010, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Metal

hm, figure now's just as good a time to give my opinion as any, after having read through a fair amount of this.

I understand where the hardcore PvPers are coming from. However, costume brawl is not hardcore PvP. It's about as casual as PvP gets -- as are all the events that feed into the Gamer title track.

I read some good thoughts here but I think the hardcore PvPers are overanalyzing this. It's casual, fun, fast, relatively thoughtless. I see some people fault CB for being simple mash ups........and I think, is that a bad thing?

As a primary PvE'er, I have fun with CB, and don't leverage the future of GW PvP on this. It is what it is and it's fast, fun, and simple.

Speak for yourself. I take CB more serious than RA, even HA (being in HA guild). Why should we think about CB as a casual format? Fact that this area is avaiable only one time in a year it's not a reason. It's tactical, require coordination, thinking etc. etc. IT HAS EVERYTHING, WHAT NORMAL/SERIOUS PvP FORMAT SHOULD HAVE. New system just fails and it's incomparable to old CB. If they do the same for snowballs I think I just quit GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

Regarding consecs in the current CB format:

10+ is not uncommon, 6+ is normal.

My record :S

Still, all depents how lucky you are. In 17th battle my team was full of noobs... 1vs5, this is it!!

Metatail · Oct 24, 2010, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Wasn't it a year ago that you win if you cap and hold all the shrines for XX seconds?

ED: Pretty unlikely considering Kysten Shore but I'm just getting that feeling when playing Whitefury Rapids!

Black Metal · Oct 24, 2010, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitsuji182

Speak for yourself. I take CB more serious than RA, even HA (being in HA guild). Why should we think about CB as a casual format? Fact that this area is avaiable only one time in a year it's not a reason.

I am speaking for myself, I think I was pretty clear about that.

As for why we should think about CB as a casual format is because that's how it was conceived and implemented. I don't care to dig up any quotes, but I know for a fact that the Live Team wants this to be a casual format and has communicated it that way. How you perceive it is your own prerogative.

hitsuji182 · Oct 24, 2010, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Metal

I am speaking for myself, I think I was pretty clear about that.

As for why we should think about CB as a casual format is because that's how it was conceived and implemented. I don't care to dig up any quotes, but I know for a fact that the Live Team wants this to be a casual format and has communicated it that way. How you perceive it is your own prerogative.

Yhm. Now that famous word 'casual' means that every match you got bunch of useless people who have fun while dying, destroying others effort and only luck can help you. Doing win-streaks was a great feeling and that made CB way more enjoaybe. Also, bad players actually could learn something playing with good players and after some matches they finally knew what was going on. There were so many points why this change sucks so much, and the only opposite argument is that stupid sync shittalk.

When i see someone saying CB isn't a PvP format i just have no words.

Ugh · Oct 24, 2010, 01:00 AM // 01:00

I like costume brawl in its current format; the only thing I find particularly annoying is the imbalance of versatility across the professions. It's like some professions are either rock, paper, or scissors, while others (i.e. ranger) are dynamite.

Also, if people really hate shuffling after every round, shuffling after every 3-5 rounds may work better. It might do less to stop syncing, but syncing doesn't always work perfectly, so going through some trouble for a little 5 round streak might be enough of a turn off.

Alternatively, there could be a forced tutorial for anyone that decides to participate in PvP, so people stop doing foolish shit.

Black Metal · Oct 24, 2010, 01:03 AM // 01:03

hitsuji, I can sympathize with your disappointment that this short-lived format falls short of competitive. But it is what it is, which for hardcore PvP'ers is as you describe it, and for many PvE'ers and more casual PvP'ers, is fun if riddled with tactical mistakes.

However, there are more opposing arguments than sync, as you put it. It's that it's fun (for some), accessible, fast, and casual.

And.......who here said CB isn't a PvP format?

hitsuji182 · Oct 24, 2010, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Metal

hitsuji, I can sympathize with your disappointment that this short-lived format falls short of competitive. But it is what it is, which for hardcore PvP'ers is as you describe it, and for many PvE'ers and more casual PvP'ers, is fun if riddled with tactical mistakes.

However, there are more opposing arguments than sync, as you put it. It's that it's fun (for some), accessible, fast, and casual.

OK, but ANet should finally realize that there are a lot of people and guilds, who wait for this 'short-lived format' all the year and when it finally kicks off they gonna spend all days playing it, like me atm. For me, Costume Brawl and Snowballs are the best formats in all GW. I have so much fun and I think there are one of things in GW which I'm really good at. Now, it doesn't matter if i solo 5 foes or not, my teammates can just destroy my effort, because I can't predict how will they play, seeing them for the first time.

Quote:

And.......who here said CB isn't a PvP format?

I pointed it in my reply in other thread, but for unknown reason my post was deleted and that guy also deleted his post.

Chocobo1 · Oct 24, 2010, 01:20 AM // 01:20

So all CB is this year is see if this round your team wins the big brawl at the start, if you win keep playing, if you lose just /resign and afk until its over. No point coordinating tactics with people who 75% of the time won't listen, and if they do you are only playing that round with them.

Sure is exciting. Just gotta get R3 for my HoM then I'm done.

awry · Oct 24, 2010, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

I'm actually finding myself enjoying the Paragon this year.........am I weird?

You sick deviant

Kawil · Oct 24, 2010, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

Well...no, because then you'd just go to the random version of costume brawl. Like how you could get gladiator points from TA or RA. There's no rank discrimination in RA. At any rate, all I'm asking is for them to introduce a version along side the one that already exists, with the only difference being that you can pick teams.

Well of course there isn't any rank discrimination in RA because it's random. I understand that. And, I understand that you'd like 2 formats side by side. Realistically, do you think the team format would have any people? I don't think it would. By the way, you remember what happened with TA, right? As far as if that's asking too much...no, I don't think it is. I just don't think you'd get the turnout that you think you would with a team CB.

Also, to add even more to this point: I see a post on here saying GvG is in crisis and is looking for new blood. Maybe the way the CB is now will be a somewhat tiny inspiration to actually learn the tactics/skill synergy/weapon swap managment required (I'm a glass half-full kinda guy...I know, I know, it's probably too much to ask for) to really want to try PvP and become part of that community. So, if you add a team-format version (referring to CB) how will "noobs/inexperienced" be allowed into teams so maybe we could learn from more experienced peeps? I can already hear the taunts: "Go back to care-bear CB noob! We're all proz here. No gamer no player", etc...

Again, I actually like getting a team of random peeps and having consecs with them, learning how they play, using different tactics and have a good time during all of this. I'm disappointed that teams don't stay together after wins (syncing should be taken care of in the front end IMOP) but it beats getting rolled by syncers by far. I'm also of the opinion that all of these festival PvP formats should become permanent year round activities. Then, some of us noobs might actually get good too (half-full glass, remember).

N E D M · Oct 24, 2010, 03:47 AM // 03:47

maybe they should just forgo the capping and use shiverpeak/ascalon arena type format
then it would always just be a 5 ov 5 BRAWL
costume BRAWL

mrmango · Oct 24, 2010, 03:53 AM // 03:53

I for one have never had a problem with having to brawl. Except on the Norn area map with 3 points. One team gets the periphery and the other gets mid, then you have to fight to win, more or less.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 24, 2010, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Metal

I read some good thoughts here but I think the hardcore PvPers are overanalyzing this. It's casual, fun, fast, relatively thoughtless. I see some people fault CB for being simple mash ups........and I think, is that a bad thing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawil

Also, to add even more to this point: I see a post on here saying GvG is in crisis and is looking for new blood. Maybe the way the CB is now will be a somewhat tiny inspiration to actually learn the tactics/skill synergy/weapon swap managment required (I'm a glass half-full kinda guy...I know, I know, it's probably too much to ask for) to really want to try PvP and become part of that community. So, if you add a team-format version (referring to CB) how will "noobs/inexperienced" be allowed into teams so maybe we could learn from more experienced peeps? I can already hear the taunts: "Go back to care-bear CB noob! We're all proz here. No gamer no player", etc...

I've made a couple of posts in this thread trying to explain how CB could work as a "stepping stone" from low end pvp to higher end. I realise that over 10 pages a few posts will disappear so I'm making another attempt here at page 10.

You pve people want to have fun and not have to think about improving your play, not having to deal with better players so you can win more and feel good about yourselves. I understand that but there are already a bunch of formats for you guys. You have most of the game to dominate in the form of pve. If you want to pvp you have very easily accessible formats in JQ, FA and RA.

For pvp'ers there are really only 3 formats left: GvG, HA and AB. (CA doesn't count as anything.) As explained earlier 2 of those must be considered "high end" and are not easily accessible, not least because they require 8 players.

There is, IMO, a huge lack of arenas for medium skilled pvp'ers and pve'ers to learn and gradually move into more advanced arenas. AB is the best format in the game atm in this respect. People can come straight from pve, tab-invite a team and go. After some initial fail they will discover the first basic AB strategy: capway. And they will be successful with this, at least moderately and not get disheartened by losing too much. While at the same time more dedicated pvp'ers can form more specific teams and play to their strengths using individual skill and tactical knowledge. Sure, some games will be boring as you may end up steamrolling the other side but overall you do get games with good competition and a challenge. So it's a place where both "sides" can meet and have fun. It's a mystery to me that more people aren't playing it, I'm guessing they haven't realised its potential.

Now CB has all the same features you find in AB in this respect. It rewards good individual skill as well as tactical play and teamwork. In its old form pve'ers and pvp'ers alike could enjoy it. Sure people straight from pve would lose more, is that unfair? If you lose when you play bad it's an incentive to improve your play, it forces you to think about the mistakes you made and what you can do better next time. The exact same thinking that is absolutely mandatory to be successful at higher forms of pvp. It featured a format that pve'ers could enjoy from the start while still being forced to learn from it meanwhile. That's just pure genius if you ask me and I'm having a hard time trying to understand why some of you are so opposed to learning something.

This new version is forcing competent people away and some of you in this thread think that is a good thing, while even others bask in glee as if pvp'ers were evil or carried some disease. Yes, you win more when you don't have to fight better players. Winning is fun, we can all agree to that. But while making the format just a little bit more fun for scrubs we are throwing away a huge potential for people from pve and pvp to meet, have fun and inspire people to try other forms of pvp.

Instead of seeing this as 2 sharply distinct "sides" in the form of pvp'ers and pve'ers, how about seeing it as a sliding bar between those 2 opposites? If you have pve(plus FA, JQ, RA) on the one hand and gvg(plus HA) on the other, what's left for the majority(?) that finds itself somewhere in the middle along this line? If you can see it this way you might agree that we maybe deserve a little CB after all.

drkn · Oct 24, 2010, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

You pve people want to have fun and not have to think about improving your play, not having to deal with better players so you can win more and feel good about yourselves.

Sentences like this one forge the 'elitist pvpers' myth and feeling.
I am, for one, a primairily PvE player that got into RA a few days ago. Still, from the very beginning - and even during festival arenas for some time now - i do try to improve my play, change my tactics accordingly to what i see on the opposing team and i feel good when i finally beat a very challenging team.

You, and i mean plural you as the Guru/GW community, make one basic mistake in the playerbase division. You see either people who play PvE or PvP, arguing which are better and why, calling the other camp names, pointing out that PvX requires xyz so it's abc.
The division that should be made is that there are intelligent, self-conscient people knowing what and why they are doing while playing, be it PvP or PvE, and there are complete retards and idiots. The PvE playerbase is much bigger than the PvP one, so it's pretty simple there are more retards noticed there, but the PvP scene doesn't lack them either.
A player that primairily plays PvP may be a good PvEr after two days of playing there, simply as he experiences the threats and common game types of PvE. The very same goes for PvP - a primairily PvEr can hop into PvP quite fast.
But an idiot won't do any good in either format, being just a tiny bit less crappy in the one he chose as his main way.

@hitsuji: view it as a new challenge. Getting high consec is harder now, but still not impossible. It's not like you have four tards on your team while the opposive one is fully experienced, knowing how to behave and how to play CB as a team. It's all pretty random and casual, as it should be, but getting consecs is still possible - and if you have worse players on your team, it requires much more from yourself to win. If you can't rely on those three rookies and one decent monk too much, you have to put 290% of your own abilities in the game.
And you can still win.

Aji Moto · Oct 24, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Your average odds of winning each match is about 50%. You can lower those odds by deliberately playing badly, but there is nothing you can do to increase it. Really, there is no incentive to improve beyond what is the average ability of the other CB brawlers.

X89 · Oct 24, 2010, 08:10 PM // 20:10

After a few hours of this years CB it's safe to say I wont be stepping back in. The constant rotating teams just annoys me way to much. I feel like I'm playing HB with people dumber than hero AI. While it was a nice attempt to stop syncing, if it kills off part of the player base whats the point. While on the syncing subject, I never had a problem with syncing. Whether it was in RA or any other special weekend event.